Author Topic: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters  (Read 9287 times)

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Offline plasma800

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C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« on: October 04, 2014, 03:44:58 PM »
Hi all, new to this forum, found you on a google search.

I'm absolutely not a mechanic.  I have a C9 in an 05 fleetwood revolution that recently exhibited some build up of odd behavior.

It started about 900 miles into a trip, after sitting for 1.5 weeks in one location - we pulled out onto the high way, throttled and got a CHK ENGINE - STOP ENGINE buzzer - off the gas, and it went away, on the pedal, came back.

I pulled off into a truck stop, fueled up as I was low anyway and found a CAT shop nearby.

Cranked up, left the truck stop to go to the cat place, but the problem vanished.  I went to cat any way, and the only code in the computer was HIGH EXHAUST TEMP - they scratched their heads a little and sent me on my way.

For the next 1200 miles, no issues.  Sat again for 2 weeks, pulled out to leave, same issue up a grade.  Pulled over, recycled engine - issue went away - but then over the next 300 miles I began to notice a mild loss of power, and into the following day realized that I was slowed to 17 mph on a moderate grade.

This unit is fairly new to me.  Upon purchasing, I did take it to a cat shop in Austin and had them look everything over with a blanket do whatever it needs order.

Thoughts now on the issue lead to either a fuel delivery problem, or a turbo problem.  I am currently in very rural vermont, and am wondering if I should change both fuel filters.

Or should I limp 200 miles to another cat facility.  I have no problem trying to change the filters myself, only problem is, I have no idea what I'm doing - I'm not even sure where they are - much less how to change them exactly.  I only know they are there.

I'm also not sure how to inspect the turbo and connections.

 ???

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2014, 04:41:09 PM »
Basics with ANY diesel with performance issues is change the fuel filter(s).

Be sure to turn over/empty the primary filter/only filter and see if there is "grunge" in the filter.

NO diesel will run well without fuel.

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2014, 06:13:03 AM »
Any suggestions or tips or look out for thats when changing this filter?

Offline antiqueclockservice

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2014, 07:00:29 AM »
Hi,

I bet you are low on coolant.  When you go up a grade the low coolant sensor is uncovered and trips the MIL light.  Top off the expansion tank when the engine is cool and fill to the cold line on the expansion tank.

best,
Phil
Best,
Phil

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2014, 07:31:46 AM »
Any suggestions or tips or look out for thats when changing this filter?

Specifics on filter changing depends on exactly how your chassis maker set up the fuel system.

Do you have two filters or only one?  If two, is one (the secondary one) a Caterpillar filter housing?  If so, does it have a manual primer pump or does it have a block off plate held by two bolts on the housing?

Then we can tell you how to do it.

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2014, 11:18:40 AM »
Here's a photo of my filters.  From what I understand, and forgive me as this thing is new to me... but the filter on the left is the secondary with pump, and the filter on the right is the primary??  I'm asking for certain confirmation.

As to the coolant, all I know is there is a site glass at the back of the engine.

I'm smart, but have very limited knowledge on this engine.  Time to learn now!

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2014, 11:35:31 AM »
and the only info I have that leads me to this conclusion of these being the two filters is reading your previous posts, and googling the numbers on the filters themselves.

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2014, 02:05:09 PM »
You are correct.  The red filter is the PRIMARY filter-- your is a 15 micron element.  Reasonable choice. I do have a preference for the primary filter to have a clear bowl so that you can see if there is any contamination. Suspect that same filter housing will accommodate the clear bowl design.

The yellow filter is the Caterpillar 2 micron final fuel filter.

The red Fram filter is the hydraulic filter.  The black one is the air dryer filter.

The knob is the handle for the manual primer pump.  Unlock it be turning the knob counter-clockwise.  Push/pull it in/out to prime.  Push it in turn it clockwise to lock.

So, to change you can install the filters dry then use the manual pump to prime.  As with any filter, coat the O-ring/gasket with oil or diesel.

To make this what I would call the "ideal" fuel system, I would install  a ball valve on the inlet side of the primary filter.  Close it when changing filters.  This keeps one of two things from happening:  if the level of fuel in the tank is lower than the filter housing, when you remove the filter, fuel siphons back to the tank (leaving you with 20+' of AIR in the fuel line.  If the level of fuel in the tank is above that of the filter housing, when you remove the filter, fuel will pour out (so be sure to have the new filter handy!).

Brett

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2014, 02:43:24 PM »
Agreed, and on board for that.

Currently I am in VERY rural vermont - not a lot of choice around me but gotta get back on the road safely.

I notice the "teeth" marks on these filters..... someone really wrenched down on them hard!  Seems excessive to me.

When I go to change these, I assume I can get the filters somewhere nearby - any description of the R&R process?  Any special tool or just a big pair of pliers?  Is it important to remove one first, then the second?  Anything to know about removing the old gasket?

Or is it really just as simple as it seems, untwist the old one, clean the gasket off, rub diesel on the new gasket, twist on, prime?

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2014, 03:21:05 PM »
When buying the filters, if there is a Caterpillar dealer in the area, I like to use their secondary filter (high quality 2 micron and not any more expensive than other filters).  The primary is not as critical and can be anywhere between 10 and 30 microns.

You can use a large strap wrench or large pliers (water pump pliers) to remove the old filter.  Only "Bubba" would use a pair of pliers to install the new filter.  With the good access you have, you should be able to get the new one properly tight by hand.

I replace the primary filter first-- not sure that is important, just the way I have always done it.

Brett

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2014, 05:03:38 AM »
Thanks so much for the advice!!  There is a cat dealer about 1.5 hours from my location.  I'll be calling them to see if they have the parts.  If not, I'd have to have them shipped to me and wait on em  :o Surely milton cat in vermont will have some.

As fas as the coolant goes - if the engine is cold, and I can see the sight glass is full and green, i'm not low yes?

I wish I knew of any place that could just spend a couple of hours with me showing me where the big stuff on this engine is... i would pay for that in heartbeat.  I asked two cat dealers in Texas and they both said no.  :-X

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2014, 06:14:35 AM »
As far as your coolant level-- do you have an overflow reservoir?  If so, that is where you check the coolant level.

And, if you get down to Texas and do want someone to go over the coach mechanicals with you, I have been doing mechanical inspections on coaches for many years. Start on the roof and end up under the coach. Cover not only what needs to be done, but what is critical/what can wait and help owners determine if the items are something they want to do or something they should hire out.  What parts to carry with them, etc.

Cost here (League City TX between Houston and Galveston): $350.
Cost in Houston metro: $400.
Cost within a day's drive roundtrip: $500.

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2014, 01:37:57 PM »
Wish I had met you BEFORE I bought my bus.  We actually live in Houston.

Well lucky for me, through a friend, I have found a local cat diesel tech less than 5 minutes away.

He's going to change both filters, flush the coolant, oil change, and air dryer filter change, and air filter change + give everything a good looking over.  I did pick up a spare pair of filters (even though he said he had a set for the engine).  Hoping this all turns out well, he sure sounds like he knows what he is talking about.  Take it to him tomorrow at noon.

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2014, 05:09:01 PM »
All filters changed, oil change performed, coolant good

Still "mushy" or "un-torquey" in the hills.

Computer had code "BOOST NOT RESPONDING"

Suspect is the boost sensor failed - gonna try a local CAT shop and see if they have one, and if the code came back after a days drive.  Wish me luck :)

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 04:25:37 PM »
Cat shop found that the wast gate solenoid is not operating.  Gonna have that swapped tomorrow.

Offline plasma800

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Re: C9 Loss of Power, Fuel Filters
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 08:03:35 AM »
wastegate solenoid changed,

chk engine light stop engine light presented again days later.