Author Topic: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors  (Read 9641 times)

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Offline Burfman

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ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« on: November 22, 2015, 09:57:39 AM »
Hello to all.  Just joined the forum as I am looking for answers on cleaning the injectors.  I have a 1999 CC with the ICS330 flashed up to a 350 by Cummins.  I bought the coach with 51k on it and now have just over 176k.  It has run very well over the past 12 years but I believe I'm loosing a little power, doesn't seem to have the snap it once had.  I had the valves done at 125k but other than that just regular maintenance performed by me.  I was talking to a friend that has a 1995 Monaco with I think the same engine, not sure, but he had a "friend" clean his injectors by filing the fuel filter with ATF and ran it through until it quit smoking.  Said it really helped with the power.  Is this BS or is this a way to clean them without removing each injector.  I have always used Diesel Kleen when traveling and in fact just returned from putting over 11k miles on the coach without any engine issues.  Looking forward to good conversations on this forum.

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2015, 01:38:29 PM »
Bufman,

Welcome to the Diesel RV Club.

I can tell you that neither Caterpillar nor Cummins would recommend that.  Could that have been successful in an old mechanical injection system-- maybe.  But with the new high pressure electronic injection, I would sure not risk it. 

And, it is quite likely that your friend's 1995 C is mechanical, while yours is electronic ISC-- therefore COMPLETELY  different fuel system.

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2015, 07:22:55 PM »
Brett, you are correct this is not a recommend practice from Cummins or Caterpillar. mainly
with todays electronic engines. The early diesel engines had very low injection crack pressures
that a person could do just about anything but not with todays electronic engines.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline ziggyh

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 10:10:07 AM »
The viscosity of the diesel fuel and other fluids like trans fluid may not be the same, with the high injection pressures you can blow off or crack the tips of the injectors, this can also happen when water gets to the injectors. The lubricity of the trans fluid may also be insufficient.  In the past trans fluid was put into the induction system of gas engines to clean carbon out of the combustion chambers, trans fluids have evolved and contain chemicals to resist burning of the fluid along with other materials  you probably don't want in a combustion chamber or injector.
ZiggyH

2007 Revolution LE
C9

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 10:29:18 AM »
ZiggyH, Changing the temperature of the injector burn so to speak with different injectors
cleaners is where problem will compound with sticky parts inside of the injecter itself via:
heat. You are correct in adding that thought. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline Burfman

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 01:32:04 PM »
Well that is certainly why I joined this informative forum.  So is removing them the only safe way to clean the injectors?  Also how do I know for sure they plugged.  Thanks.

Offline ziggyh

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2015, 04:53:38 PM »
A plugged injector would cause a rough run, but injector problems can show a ugly face in different ways depending type, design etc.  Symptoms could be rough run to hydrauliging a cylinder, or lots of black smoke.  So it depends on what fails with the injector.

ZiggyH

2007 Revolution LE
C9

Offline Burfman

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 08:47:10 AM »
Thanks Ziggyh.  I really don't see any smoke unless I lug it a bit but after 175,000 miles I feel it has lost a little power.  Idle is smooth anywhere between 550 and 800 and it is still quick out of the hole without the toad.  When I add the toad, (F-150 quad cab @ about 6500lbs when loaded) it just seems to be  sluggish.  As stated previously I did the valves at 125,000 but other than that no other repairs other than normal maintenance.  The local Cummins dealer doesn't seem to be all that helpful.

Offline ziggyh

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 05:22:13 PM »
Has your boost pressure dropped off a bit, could be a minor issue like clamps on the induction system loosing off over the years leaking a small amount.

On another thought since you are noticing the lack of power with you toad could the brakes be dragging a bit.

Unfortunately, coming up with a fix over a forum can be a hit and a miss, the best I can do is to provide some ideas to explore and possibly someone else may also have some input.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 07:07:56 PM by Brett Wolfe »
ZiggyH

2007 Revolution LE
C9

Offline WILDEBILL308

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 07:27:53 PM »
I know you have probably already done this but have you changed all the filters? Have you had the fuel pressure checked? lift pump pressure? As Ziggy said go over your clamps and check the intake system and air filter.
"it just seems to be  sluggish" is such a subjective observation.  ;)  :)
I also use Diesel Kleen and usually in a little richer mix than what is on the bottle. The website recommends to double the amount for more rapid cleaning. Might be something to try.
Hear is a link to a Fleetguard injector cleaner.
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/html/en/products/fuel/additives/fuel_inj_cleaner.html
I have run Fleetguard's Asphaltene Conditioner and I think it makes my engine run smoother.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N,300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.Towing 2014 Honda CRV. Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

Offline ziggyh

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 04:27:46 AM »
One other easy item to check is the CAC (charge air cooler) for air flow restrictions and dirty.  A dirty CAC can cause a decrease in performance and slight decrease in MPG especially under higher boost conditions.  Cleaning is very easy, spray down fins with a cleaner like simple green and rinse of with a light spray from a garden hose, do not use high pressure washer close to fins since they can be folded over easily and block air flow.

 
ZiggyH

2007 Revolution LE
C9

Offline antiqueclockservice

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 06:12:00 AM »
Hi Folks,

There was a raging debate on the use of Simple Green on aluminum on an Alfa Website sometime past.  I believe there is now an Aluminum friendly version, which should be used to clean the CAC.
Best,
Phil

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2015, 10:10:24 AM »
Hi Folks,

There was a raging debate on the use of Simple Green on aluminum on an Alfa Website sometime past.  I believe there is now an Aluminum friendly version, which should be used to clean the CAC.

Yes, Simple Green EXTREME is an aluminum-friendly degreaser.  Developed for degreasing aluminum skinned aircraft.  Most industrial cleaning supply companies carry it.

And, I agree, and have only recommended this aluminum-friendly product for years.

Brett

Offline Burfman

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Re: ISC 350 Cleaning the Injectors
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2015, 07:22:44 AM »
Thanks to all for the suggestions.  Once we get the turkey out of the way, I'll start going over everything that has been suggested.  Wishing all of you a Happy Thanksgiving.