Author Topic: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7  (Read 19480 times)

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Offline GS340

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Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« on: April 07, 2016, 04:20:08 PM »
Hello...  I'm still having an issue with my diesel coach.  The engine stumbles when applying throttle from a stop and while driving.  At one point after coming to a stop the throttle pedal didn't seem to work at all.  I pushed the pedal almost to the floor before the engine reved really high.

The engine hesitates in what appears to be the same throttle positions. I could be dreaming   

I think the missing comes around the 1200 rpm range but not sure. I think it's more consistent with the position of the pedal.

I changed the oil in October 2015 and there is maybe 1200 miles on that oil change.

I changed the fuel filters and air filter with no change in engine performance. 

I also get the feeling she is down on power but not sure.

The other odd thing is sometimes the idle will change.   I let the coach warm up for a few minutes and after maybe 10 minutes it sounds like the engine changed rpm.  I can't describe it.  It's very noticeable.

No engine codes

I thought about buying a new TPS and seeing if that fixes it but I hate throwing parts at a problem.   I was hoping to advice or suggestions on how to check a few simple things myself before going to the CAT dealer in fredricksburg VA

Thoughts comments suggestions?

How much and where can you buy the CAT diagnostic software and cable?  Is it worth while investment?



Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 05:34:11 AM »
Good morning, to get into your problem which possible a TPS sensor as you been
thinking about. There are many unknowns also involved that need to be answered
before that can be firmed up. What is your exhaust doing ( smoke on speed up ),
( no smoke ) does engine shake at missing point of 1200 rpm. At Idle what is the
Boost pressure gauge on dash read and the atmosphere pressure sensor reading.
To answer your last question about buying Cat ET to diagnostic your engine it is not
available to the public. You can buy a silver leaf or and Aladdin that goes on dash
And gives a good read out. Dave Atherton Retired cat Mechanic

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 05:52:45 AM »
Yes, the engine seems to stumble during the miss and i've tried to turn my head quickly to see if there is smoke and I don't think there is.  I've tried based on what I've read on this form and the web.

I don't have a boost gauge on the dash.  I thought about adding one but not sure where to put the sensor or connector for the gauge.  Is there a port available for this ?  I would rather not have to drill and tap a hole.

I did order a TPS from my local freightliner dealer today.  Its wasn't too much and based on all the problems posted here it seems to something worth having for this issue or another that might arise later on in life.   I have a feeling it's not going to solve the problem.

I know it's difficult to internet repair an engine.  It's impossible but thank you for any suggestions you can give.



Good morning, to get into your problem which possible a TPS sensor as you been
thinking about. There are many unknowns also involved that need to be answered
before that can be firmed up. What is your exhaust doing ( smoke on speed up ),
( no smoke ) does engine shake at missing point of 1200 rpm. At Idle what is the
Boost pressure gauge on dash read and the atmosphere pressure sensor reading.
To answer your last question about buying Cat ET to diagnostic your engine it is not
available to the public. You can buy a silver leaf or and Aladdin that goes on dash
And gives a good read out. Dave Atherton Retired cat Mechanic

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 06:01:36 AM »
I disconnected the battery yesterday, unplugged all the connectors on the computer, and the TPS.  I didn't see any water or corrosion.  I figured that was worth checking.  All the wires appeared to be seated in the connectors.

Do you or anyone have a wiring diagram?  or can tell me the voltages for the wires going to the TPS?  I wanted to see if it's getting correct voltage and I wanted to see if i could see a odd number on the volt meter as i slowly push on the pedal.   It's a potentiometer so it should send a voltage to the computer to tell how much throttle i'm requesting.  right?  I'm not an electrical engineer so i'm not 100% a volt meter is the correct tool.  I might need another device.

The miss happens at the same spot on throttle pressing.  I went out there this morning and it seems to be very consistent regardless of temp.   I think... Like I said I could be dreaming and my butt-o-meter isn't a replacement for a diagnostic scan tool

 

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2016, 06:00:44 AM »
GS 340,  Do you have a real name that I can address. Area to address that has been a very common problem which sounds like your having. Boost pressure sensor putting out
Code of 102-1  Low Boost Pressure,  Part number 276-6793. What is causing this code
Boost pressure solenoid Part number 230-9944 is sticking of the boost pressure solenoid
In most cases connection to boost pressure solenoid is dirty or the solenoid is bad.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 04:51:55 PM »
Sorry,  my name is Robert.

Where is the solenoid located?  I found two sensors on the intake side.  One has to be the map sensor.  One was a two wire and the other was a three wire.

This weekend I drove the RV around doing local errands.  I also added some seafoam and howes diesel treatment.  There is some improvement but the power comes on very slow and it seems I have to push harder on the pedal.  It was to the floor at one point and there was one time when the power came on suddenly as I kept having to push harder.

Very weird ..

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 04:52:33 PM »
No lights on the dash.  so I assume no codes.

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2016, 06:05:55 PM »
Pictures... It looks like someone has been around the area of the solenoid because the harness isn't attached using the factory connectors to the engine.  I noticed several non-factory wire tires holding the bundle of wires to the engine. 

Offline ziggyh

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2016, 06:06:14 PM »
Robert, don't know if you are still looking for info but here is some info on the TPS circuit.
The TPS or APP (Accelerator Position Sensor) Gets 8 volts from the ECM on terminal A, Terminal B is the signal return or the ground, Terminal C is the APP signal to the ECM.  The sensor is not like a TPS on a gas engine.  Most gas engine TPS were a potentiometer type and sent back a varying DC voltage in relation to position, today most manufactures have gone away from potentiometer and are a contactless type.

The APP sensor on your engine outputs a duty cycle signal on terminal C, it should measure about 10-20 % at idle and gradually go up to 70-90 % at WOT (wide open throttle).

The wire colors for the terminals may be A-Red, B-Black, and C-White.  You would measure the duty cycle between terminal B and C
ZiggyH

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Offline Dale

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2016, 06:21:47 PM »
Pressure regulator or the internal fuel pump?
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Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2016, 06:07:00 AM »
Thank you all for the helpful information.  One of the problems was a bad TPS on the pedal.  The pedal works as it should now.  The only remaining issue is an oil leak someplace on the driver side and the hesitation or hiccup from a stop

She seems to run ok once you get past the initial pressing of the pedal

Offline antiqueclockservice

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2016, 07:02:27 AM »
Hi,   could the hesitation just the lag in the turbo spooling up?

best,
Phil
Best,
Phil

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2016, 09:00:45 AM »
Gantleman, C-7 sounds like boost pressure regulator is hanging up and is very
commond. Will have a code 102-1 low boost pressure and is caused from boost
pressure regulator part number 230-9944. Dave Atherton Retired Cat mechanic

Offline antiqueclockservice

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2016, 07:33:58 PM »
Hi David,

Is the regulator engine mounted or attached to the body by the motorhome MFG?   I think mine is working just fine as I get a steady acceleration until the turbo kicks in and then I can almost beat anyone from a stop light for the first 100 yards or so...  Love the torque of a Diesel...

Best,
Phil
Best,
Phil

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2016, 10:33:22 PM »
Phill, location for boost pressure regulator at back of engine on left side ( looking from
back of engine to front.) location is about 6 inches below head. You will see the solenoid
coil with a 8 inch pig tail on regulator. Most times the connection on pig tail is dirty and
many times the regulator sticks off and on, than just sticks open at whatever position.
in checking if regulator is stuck with engine at idle, can check vent tube about 12 inches from wastegate on turbo at tee and vent line facing down about 12 inches long. What you will
Be looking for is any air is coming out of the vent tube. If there is no air coming from
Vent tube the boost pressure regulator is fault. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2016, 06:35:01 AM »
Pressure regulator or the internal fuel pump?

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2016, 07:02:43 AM »
Dale , cannot follow your question what are you looking for .Dave Atherton Retired Cat mechnic

Offline antiqueclockservice

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2016, 08:51:30 AM »
Hi David,

Thanks!

best,
Phil
Best,
Phil

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2016, 12:20:25 PM »
David,

I went to the CAT dealer and picked up the solenoid.  They didn't have the entire assembly (part number you listed) and strongly suggested just replacing the solenoid first.  The entire assembly is $194.00 + tax and the solenoid was $15.23 after tax. 


« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 05:53:00 PM by GS340 »

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2016, 05:50:23 PM »
Update.  I found the solenoid and replaced it.  Noticeable difference but there was a stumble off the line a few times.  I'll see how she does over the next long weekend trip.


Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2016, 06:57:25 AM »
GS 340 Robert, after changing boost pressure sensor is code 102-7 still present ?
What is happening your wastegate on turbo charger is stuck or sticking on turbo
housing itself. This can happen from carbon build up on wastegate shaft or rust on
the arm and Rod pivot at housing. If you add 30 psi air to wastegate actuator will
give movement, if not WD-40 at arm and Rod on wastegate. Note: cannot replace
just the wastegate and will require complete turbo replacement. I have had several
wastegate stuck mainly from sitting long time, but have been able free up wastegate.
Last the code 102-7 should be still present. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2016, 10:39:31 AM »
Hello.  I replaced the throttle position sensor on the pedal and that seemed to cure the problem when applying gas nothing would happen.  I have pedal response now

I've never had an engine code nor has the check engine light come on.  I bought silver leaf software and no codes. Nothing.   Boost pressure is in the high 20s when I given a lot of throttle. I did not replace the boost pressure sensor/sender in the manifold. Only the boost pressure solenoid and not the entire valve

The stumble now seems to happen when engine is cold.  I drove the kids around yesterday and the first few miles she would stumble off the light but then it would clear up. No problems after a few miles.  Still no codes. All green indicators with silver leaf

I'll see if I can figure out how to apply 30psi to the waste gate.  At least I can oil it

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2016, 10:45:49 AM »
I didn't replace the boost pressure sensor because I wanted to see if if the codes you mentioned were present. The sensor is $80 and if you think I should just go ahead and replace it I will.   

The remaining stumble could be because of the regulator valve is sticking like you said.  I was really hoping a new solenoid would clean up the valve's action

Offline GS340

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Re: Freightliner 2005 M2 / ACERT CAT C7
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2016, 06:17:49 PM »
I bought the two parts you suggest.  The boost pressure sensor, 276-6793, was $158 out the door and I installed it right before our weekend trip.  HUGE difference...  There seems to be a slight miss at times but I'm so attuned to the problem that a new driver wouldn't notice.

I noticed the boost pressure doesn't sit at 0.0 at idle on the silver leaf.  It bounces between 0.3 and 0.6 at idle. 

I also purchased the complete solenoid assembly, 230-9944, for $215 out the door.  I'm hesitant to touch the engine now since she is running really good.

Thank you