Author Topic: HEUI Pump  (Read 1520 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline seeing the sights

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
HEUI Pump
« on: December 30, 2017, 12:37:32 PM »
  If someone could give me their opinion. Started our trip in Pa very cold when we left.  (oil filter bypass on high pressure?) drove 350 miles no problem stopped for fuel started the 2006 C7 got back on highway engine derated itself, check engine light on. Pulled codes low fuel pressure. I then changed the 2 filters, same code and derate. towed to Triple T truck Warsaw NC. Technicion will look at it 1/2 Tuesday I belive it could be the HEUI pump. What can I do so I don't have this happen again?
I have read that if the oil pressure is to high (cold weather) the oil is bypassed around the filter causing dirty oil to drive the HEUI pump witch it turn causes the bearing to fail.   
If it turns out to be the pump What action do you recommend? 

1   Replace pump only
2   Replace Pump and all injectors kit # 20R0643
3   Replace Pump and all injectors also flush lines to injectors
4   Replace Pump and all injectors flush lines and add a filter that goes only to the HEUI Pump new CAT kit #20r6642
I will have the tech do a oil and filter change
Thanks Joe Brey 


Online Brett Wolfe

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
Re: HEUI Pump
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2018, 05:51:43 AM »
Joe,

After reading your post, I got an e-mail from a retired Caterpillar Tech, Dave Atherton.  I am posting this with his permission:


Joe Brey, think is getting ready to spend lots
Of money. Reading post of problems with Cat -7 sounds like a story I have dealt with several times in past year.
First of all having a check valve sticking open would not in anyway take out the bearings in the heui pump. Second
No mention of any Cat ET diagnostic codes posted from technician troubleshooting problem. Third putting in
set on injectors in addition to install heui pump again there is no merit to change out a set of injectors. What Joe
Is looking at before getting out the door with the heui pump and set of injectors money wise $ 10,000. This drill
sounds like a script that I dealt with again several times. Going back to heui pump ( what does it do ? ) creates
Engine oil into high pressure oil from crankcase via: heui pump, the high pressure than enters oil rail by opening
What is called injection Actuation pressure Regulator and controlled by injection pressure sensor signal from
The engine ECM. Troubleshooting heui pump ( low oil pressure ) technician says heui pump bad, the only problem
With this high pressure cannot go to oil rail with out first going through the injection Actuation pressure regulator
( basic this is a valve that opens and closes ) valve operates via signal from engine ECM. The first place that will
cause low oil pressure is the injection Actuation pressure regulator not the heui pump. The location of the injection
Actuation pressure sensor for Cat C-7 in under the cover of the heui pump. The technician connect Cat ET doing
troubleshooting should supply you with ET Diagnostic codes present which I can show direction how to proceed.
The Cat ET codes holds the information on what failed or what has not failed. Again this post is to me script I have
heard before several times. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Online Brett Wolfe

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
Re: HEUI Pump
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2018, 07:53:44 AM »
More from Dave Atherton:

Hi Brett, looking over Joe Brey post again and problem is not within the injection pump as his technician and
Information there posting. This is not Engine oil pressure problem with heui pump but a diesel fuel related problem.
the derate of engine could be one injector firing off and on ( this is not saying injector is bad ) but electrical connection
to injector. What he has going on is a event code that should be logged on the ECM. If Ken will look up on the
BAC forum ( Ask Dave technical Area ) I have posted a very common problem on injector firing off and on with
Electrical connection to injector. The engine oil return to oil pan gets into loose electrical connector and kills the
contact. This problem is getting very common and a very easy and very low cost fix owner can preform. Dave
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Tell me he really not understanding the problem fully and plans to throw parts at problem. Going deeper into his post which I should picked up onThis first but he wanted. Direction to what he posted of which I answered. This is a real good example on Joe
part not to get into a big hurry and start on repair. Dave
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Think a person can understand problem and can find injector not firing by removing electrical connection.
Clean up oil on both injector socket and male end with brake clean, install two small o-rings over male end
reconnect electrical connection and zip tie metal holding clip in place to make tight connect.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 11:48:13 AM by Brett Wolfe »

Offline seeing the sights

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: HEUI Pump
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2018, 10:38:34 AM »
Thanks big time for your reply's,  The motorhome has not been seen by a tech yet. I am told it is in line for Thursday. All this talk about pump and injectors is just me looking online at worst case scenario  . After reading alot about this issue, first I will get codes. Then I was going  to have the tech replace the pressure reg.  Is the pressure reg. on the back side of engine and the pressure sensor is under the pump cover?  All I ask is that you 2 guys don't give up on me. I will keep you posted. I will be at the service center 7 AM tomorrow. to talk to service guy. I will ask him if he can pull codes and let you guys know what they are I DON"T want to spend more then necessary but how do you tell a tech what to do. Thanks, a TON   Joe Brey
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 11:29:36 AM by seeing the sights »

Online Brett Wolfe

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
Re: HEUI Pump
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 01:32:15 PM »
More from Dave:

Reading Joe post, the injection Actuation is located in the heui pump housing and opening a door expense.
My suggestions just have them Provide a complete Cat ET readout and print out codes, at this point have a time out
without anything else that would create out lay of more money. With Cat ET have them do an injector cut out
test if they will. Buy some time so you can check yourninjectors

Offline Ken Carpenter

  • Ken Carpenter, Jr.
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 303
  • "Courage is a kind of salvaton". Plato
Re: HEUI Pump
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2018, 02:04:18 PM »
Here is some additional information from Dave on injector problems:

When troubleshooting an injector related problem, service shops often remove the electrical connection but fail to check the connection or inspect the rubber boot that was designed to protect the connection. Since the connector is in the injector socket it gets soaked in hot engine oil, leading to failure at some point.

In the heui injection system, excess engine oil returns back to oil pan from top of the rocker assembly. Over time the little sealing boot that seals engine oil out of electrical connection at injector breaks down. The boot is only about ¼ inch and simply protects the interface where the connector is mated with the socket. The hot engine oil at the electrical connection pins can kill the electrical power to the injector. This will generate diagnostic code 164-11 (Injector Actuation Pressure Fault) on your Silver Leaf or Aladdin.  (This fault may be intermittent due to the electrical connection making and breaking). Many shops will replace the injector since the code indicates a failed injector without ever checking the electrical connection.

Once the boot has failed, it cannot be re-used. The rubber boots cannot be bought without buying a wiring harness for injectors, which can get expensive. CAT does not supply the boots on current engines. There is an on-the-road repair that is fairly easy (and far less costly).

Remove the valve cover to access the injectors and electrical connectors at each injector. Disconnect the connector as shown in the first picture. Apply spray on brake cleaner to clean and dry the connectors, especially the pins and sockets. Next slide 2 small o-rings over the connector on the right (in first picture). This should result in a tight fit when the plug mates to the socket. The o-rings need to be tight enough to seal the gap. Then replace the metal clip and use zip ties (will break down over time) or mechanic’s wire (preferred) to hold the clip in place by connecting the tie/wire across the 2 loops of the clip on either side below the connector.







It is suggested that if one injector fails you apply this fix to all injectors at that time. The injectors themselves are designed to run 300000 miles without problems. This repair should cost you less than $10 in parts

Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
2005 Winnebago Journey 39K, C7 350HP
Jeep Grand Cherokee, Airforce One
Diesel RV Club Officer & Board Member

Offline seeing the sights

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: HEUI Pump
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2018, 06:46:18 PM »
Here we go, Tuesday AM I am going to pull valve cover off the C7, clean and put O-rings on my injector electrical plugs.
Will give an update. I want to thank Dave, Brett and Ken for all their help. I have learned over the years that most people are very kind and caring. The people that came to our aid reassures me of this, Thanks so much.  Cyndy and Joe Brey

Offline seeing the sights

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: HEUI Pump
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2018, 05:15:04 PM »
Sorry for not replying sooner,  but we were cruising down route 95 at 60 MPH with no check engine light, except for 3 short 1 minute  intervals,with no derate  last 400 miles and no check engine at all.  I believe I should have used 2 O-rings or 1 fatter one.  I am going to see what happens on the 1,000 mile ride home in 9 weeks. May redo the O-rings when we get home. I just want to thank Dave as his knowledge is invaluable. My conversations with Dave were very educational.

Just a side note, the motorhome was at the truck repair center. Tuesday morning I got there before they opened. I told the service manager that my wife said " we're not going to spend 1 more dollar on this motorhome and we are going to trade it in at the next RV dealer". I asked if I owed anything for storage and was told nothing was owed. Then I ran out of there with my wallet intact. 

Once again, Thanks to all involved. Brett, Ken and a BIG THANKS to the CAT KING  Dave Atherton
 
   

Offline seeing the sights

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: HEUI Pump (UPDATE)
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2018, 05:17:05 PM »
    Hello, All is well drove 1000 miles north with no issues. Breaking down was a big eye opener to me although I always thought I was up on all maintenance on the coach.I plan on going over it head to toe.

    My next project is to get the CAT ET codes pulled and hopefully I can find someone to interpret them. After that all filters and air dryer,coolant, belts and hoses re-do o-rings at injectors.

We have owed the 2006  motorhome since new and it desires a good going over.

Once again thanks to all that helped us with this. Big thanks to  Dave Atherton for all his help.

Dave if you are seeing this I might ask you to look at the CAT codes when pulled.

Thanks, Joe and Cyndy

 

Offline David.e.atherton

  • Approved Forum Member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 105
Re: HEUI Pump
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2018, 05:43:09 PM »
Yes, I can give you the information you will need. One thing you can do is pull up
The blink codes off your cruise control and give that information to me also ( it is
called Caterpillar messenger ) Glad to hear you had a good trip after up and running.
Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic