Author Topic: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions  (Read 798 times)

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Offline dmevis

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2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« on: August 25, 2019, 12:37:27 PM »
I have a new-to-me 2007 Winnebago Journey 34H (2006 Freightliner Chassis and CAT C7 Engine).  Had it overheat on our first long trip while my wife was driving.  Ambient temperature was over 100 degrees F, and climbing a steep grade.  Since then, we have learned to use the gears and proper RPM to keep the temperature in check.  However, I am still planning to do some cooling system maintenance, and so I have some questions.  I plan to clean the fins on the radiator and CAC. 

  • This is an RV that is driven a half dozen times, and maybe 10K miles, per year.  Do I need to use the extended life coolant?  Does the extended life coolant "cool" any better?
  • Planning to change the thermostats.  I understand that CAT has increased the thermostat temperature on the C7 by 15 degrees F (without changing the Part Number  >:().  I want to continue to run 90 degree C thermostats, but don't know where to find them.  Does anyone have a NAPA Part Number for a 90 degree C thermostat that will fit the C7 engine?
  • Does anyone have a description or picture of where the block drain is on the C7 engine?
  • When doing a cooling system flush, can I use tap water for the intermediate flushes and only use distilled water for a final flush and the fill?

Thank you for any help.

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2019, 10:23:31 PM »
demvies, little information on Cat C-7. Temperature Regulator there is ( 1 ) Caterpillar
does not make a temperature Regulator 90 deg F. The regulator that is for your engine
Starts to open at 191 deg F and full open at 208 deg F. If you have green antifreeze
and the miles you put around less than 10,000 miles ( stay with the green antifreeze )
There is a big cost difference.but it is recommended that when you change your temperature
regulator every 2 years and antifreeze every 2 years. One area that gathers lot of dirt
Is located between the radiator and the CAC cooler. One do not lug or let lug down with
Tech reading below 16 rpm. Going deeper heating going up steep and long grades but
yet there is nothing missing ( coolant from engine radiator ) do the follow a engine problem.
Let’s start from this point. Ask Dave, David Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic.

Offline dmevis

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 06:06:22 PM »
Thank you, Dave.  Some follow on questions...

My engine currently runs at 187-189 degree F. according to the Freightliner dash display.  My understanding is that CAT used to specify/provide thermostats that were cooler than the current ones.  I believe they were rated at 90 degrees C (which is 194 degrees F) .  CAT has since increased the temperature of the thermostats to 207 degrees F.  I don't want to run the newer and hotter thermostat, I want to run the temperature that the 2006 year engine was originally designed for, which is 194 degrees F.  So my question is where can I obtain a compatible thermostat that is rated at 194 degrees F?

What is the follow a engine problem?

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 09:40:48 PM »
dnevis, cannot understand as to where you are getting your information from but it  is
not on Caterpillar SIS technical information system. The only change or upgrade to
The temperature Regulator was the removal of the jiggle pin temperature regulator
because the jiggle pin would stick and overheat problem. Think at this point I would
recommend connecting Caterpillar ET to your engine ECM and what we are looking
for on event codes ( 173-0 high exhaust temperature and than 173-11 extreme exhaust
temperature ), what I’m doing first before you start throwing parts at this problem is
to be sure what the problem could be.note: both the above event codes indicate engine
In being put into a lugging condition under heavy load and engine power is Derate or
cut back until Engines rpms can build up over 1400 rpms. There is no repair for this
condition and no damage to engine. Where I’m determined about your power and heating
condition you did not indicate and coolant loss or adding fluids. Something else you
may not be aware of it is possible your engine is stuck into the what’s called the cold mode
( fail safe to prevent lack of warm up of engine ) that can be also backed up on Cat ET also
History of your intake temperatures, which will cause low power. I assume that the Radiator
and Charged air cooler are clean and dirt free. I would look in this area real close and
know for a fact your problem in not in this area, and Caterpillar is the only tool that can help you out.  Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat  mechanic

Offline antiqueclockservice

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2019, 08:14:13 AM »
Hi,

I have come to the point that every year I wash the Radiator and the CAC.  I use a garden sprayer with a mixture of Dawn dishwashing concentrate and water.  Raise the bed and with the engine running use the fan to drive the soap and water solution into the fins...do not wait too long as you do not want this solution to dry...Then hose off with a garden hose while the engine is running.  Then shut down and repeat the process on the outside of the CAC.   This summer in ambient temps over 115°F  Temp gauge barely when over mid point while climbing steep grades.  I keep the engine RPM at 2200 on these climbs using the transmission gear selector.

best,
Phil
Best,
Phil

Offline dmevis

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2019, 01:06:33 PM »
dnevis, cannot understand as to where you are getting your information from but it  is
not on Caterpillar SIS technical information system. The only change or upgrade to
The temperature Regulator was the removal of the jiggle pin temperature regulator
because the jiggle pin would stick and overheat problem.
I found the cooler CAT Thermostat I was looking for.  The CAT 119-3075 Thermostat is rated at 180 degrees F. 


Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2019, 07:17:02 PM »
Dmevis, yes the thermostat you listed is a Caterpillar number and thermostat.  where
problem comes into play the temperature range is not for the Caterpillar C-7 engine.
This is what going to happen , your engine is built and tested to known value and
that value is programmed into your engine ECM of which you have a know startup
fail safe mode called the engine ( cold mode ) and is known preset value . By changing
Temperature value as you would like to do , your engine will remain in the cold mode
which will change the  operation of your engine to reduced power same as you start
engine cold in the morning. Before the electronic engine yes this would be accessible
but not with today’s electronic ECM controlled engines. In technical terms this is what
you will have happen lowering the preset engine temperature with thermostat that is
Incorrect for your engine. Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline dmevis

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2019, 08:20:08 PM »
Dmevis, yes the thermostat you listed is a Caterpillar number and thermostat.  where
problem comes into play the temperature range is not for the Caterpillar C-7 engine.
This is what going to happen , your engine is built and tested to known value and
that value is programmed into your engine ECM of which you have a know startup
fail safe mode called the engine ( cold mode ) and is known preset value . By changing
Temperature value as you would like to do , your engine will remain in the cold mode
which will change the  operation of your engine to reduced power same as you start
engine cold in the morning. Before the electronic engine yes this would be accessible
but not with today’s electronic ECM controlled engines. In technical terms this is what
you will have happen lowering the preset engine temperature with thermostat that is
Incorrect for your engine. Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Dave.  I understand what you are saying and I agree that you shouldn't run a colder thermostat.  However, as best as I can tell, the thermostat that is currently in my engine runs at 187-189 degrees F.  I have 2 friends with the same make/model RV, and theirs also run at the same temperature. 

According to the CAT website, the 119-3075 Thermostat is one of the thermostats that is listed for my Serial Number engine (WAX43774).  Actually, the CAT website also lists the 115-4223 Thermostat for my Serial Number engine.  Should I be running one of each?  I though that with RV's, CAT used 2 of the same temperature Thermostats.

AND, the "old" version of the 115-4223 thermostat (with the jiggle pin) is rated as 190 degrees F, while the "new" version of the 114-4223 thermostat (without the jiggle pin) is rated at 206 degrees F.  So, as I stated in my initial posting, CAT increased the temperature of the 115-4223 thermostat by 16 degrees F, without changing the Part Number. 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 08:54:00 PM by dmevis »

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2019, 07:09:15 AM »
dmevis, you mention cat web site or are you at dealer level and have information off Caterpillar SIS technical program. This is your choice you have to make I have provided technical as
Per Caterpillar SOP troubleshooting cooling system. If you feel this is not what you would like to hear you may have other problem. Sometimes addressing engine problems it at this point
it is best to have a Caterpillar shop connect Cat ET to your engine and you will get readout
of logged event codes and not active fault codes. Than  post me the event codes and will take you to your problem. You are stalled getting advice and think you need to move forward provide
The engine event codes present to correctly repair your problem.than I can help you.
Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline dmevis

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Re: 2006 Cat C7 Cooling questions
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2019, 10:46:20 AM »
dmevis, you mention cat web site or are you at dealer level and have information off Caterpillar SIS technical program. This is your choice you have to make I have provided technical as
Per Caterpillar SOP troubleshooting cooling system. If you feel this is not what you would like to hear you may have other problem. Sometimes addressing engine problems it at this point
it is best to have a Caterpillar shop connect Cat ET to your engine and you will get readout
of logged event codes and not active fault codes. Than  post me the event codes and will take you to your problem. You are stalled getting advice and think you need to move forward provide
The engine event codes present to correctly repair your problem.than I can help you.
Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Dave.  Thank you so much for your help. 

If you re-read my original post, I do not have a "problem" with my RV.  I am merely trying to perform some routine cooling system maintenance on my RV. 

I plan to clean the fins on the radiator and CAC.  Will use Simple Green Extreme.

I plan to replace the thermostats, and have been trying to understand how to obtain thermostats that are like the 2006 originals and not like the current CAT thermostats, which are 16 degrees hotter than the original thermostats .  I now understand that if I buy some old stock 115-4223 CAT thermostats, I will be at the190 degrees F that CAT designed this engine for. 

I plan to flush and replace the coolant.  I now understand that using ELC coolants actually increases the heat transfer of the fluid compared to using traditional coolants. 

So, last question.... is there a coolant block drain on the C7 engine? 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 12:42:08 PM by dmevis »