Author Topic: Primary fuel filter  (Read 1089 times)

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Offline Captpar

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Primary fuel filter
« on: April 26, 2020, 12:12:14 PM »
Time again to change my two fuel filters on the C7,For my primary filter I always used the Alliance filter with water bowl. The cat filter doesn’t have that,but does  the cat filter have the same micron rating as the alliance? Basically is the cat filter as good as the alliance.
2007 Sport Coach, C-7, Freightliner XL

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2020, 01:46:50 PM »
Yes, Caterpillar filters are high quality.

Yes, Caterpillar should have the same micron ratings for the primary fuel filter-- you just need to make sure of the micron rating.  For the primary fuel filter/water separator, the primary filter should be somewhere between 10 and 30 micron.

And, absolutely stick with the Caterpillar 2 micron secondary fuel filter.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 05:52:55 AM by Brett Wolfe »

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2020, 11:01:44 PM »
Gentlemen, the primary fuel services a purpose where as high micron rating basic catches the sticks and logs
and keeps them out of fuel system. The secondary fuel filter has to be a 2 micron 1R-0751 caterpillar part. There is about a 4 year period where mfg removed the secondary fuel and just used the primary fuel filter
which was located along the lower right corner of radiator. ( not going to mention mfg or the reason behind the
Removing secondary OEM caterpillar filter 1R-0751. ) the removal of the secondary fuel filter also removed
caterpillar fail safe mode with the fuel system. The caterpillar 3100 series engines with Heui injection system
was built and tested for fuel system only to use a 2 micron secondary fuel filter. As I mention the primary fuel
filter catches the larger debris only but operation of your cat engine requires the secondary 2 micron filter. In
closing aftermarket filters will save you money, the down side other than removing fail safe mode in fuel system
over time damage to injection system mainly injectors and replacement is very costly. Ask Dave, Dave Atherton
Retired cat Mechanic

Offline Captpar

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2020, 09:37:33 AM »
Thanks for the reply,always used the secondary cat 0751 filter.but stayed with alliance due to the water bowl. Think I will go with the cat primary filter now.
2007 Sport Coach, C-7, Freightliner XL

Offline sledbiker

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2020, 06:12:30 PM »
Time again to change my two fuel filters on the C7,For my primary filter I always used the Alliance filter with water bowl. The cat filter doesn’t have that,but does  the cat filter have the same micron rating as the alliance? Basically is the cat filter as good as the alliance.

I was just wondering Captpar, what is the part # on the Alliance filter with the clear bowl and the micron rating. I like to see it installed on my 3126, I use the Fleetguard FS1000 presently as my primary filter, with this filter you need to dump into clear container to see if there anything. Had a clear bowl on my tractor and loved it.


Offline ziggyh

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2020, 09:15:34 PM »
A fleet guard FS1242 also has a bowl, not sure if it is a direct fit. You would have to check the specs. It was on my c9 before I switched to a Racor with an electric prime pump.
ZiggyH

2007 Revolution LE
C9

Offline Captpar

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2020, 10:56:00 AM »
Will go to Rv tomorrow and get alliance part number for poster.
2007 Sport Coach, C-7, Freightliner XL

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2020, 05:56:12 AM »
Gentleman, just want to add a little thought with problems on the road today. Most all fuel related problems happens from fuel tank up front ot fuel transfer pump in rear outside of engine .Understanding  the fuel
operation at this point outside the engine the fuel is pulled from fuel tank in front to primary water fuel filter
to fuel transfer pump by suction and this area is where most problems occur and over looked to other areas.
With caterpillar engines the entry of air and mechanical fuel transfers pump pulling fuel that was not efficient
flow or pressure that over time causes low power and injection system problems. Many problems are simple
repairs. Let’s go back to the caterpillar fuel transfer pump to engine diesel fuel is pumped under pressure to
the secondary fuel filter 1R-0751 caterpillar only 2 micron filter. Note using the correct OEM filter sets up the engine fail safe mode on engine ECM for the fuel system . Cannot stress the over troubleshooting with engine problems and lot
of money spent only to find problem was minor and located in the suction side of fuel transfer pump allowing
entry of air. Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retured Cat Mechanic
.

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2020, 07:19:52 AM »
Dave,

I believe all of us are saying the same thing.

From the very first post, the OP has stressed that he is seeking correct replacement for the PRIMARY fuel filter and reiterated that he absolutely used the Caterpillar 2 micron 1R-0751 for the secondary.

So primary fuel filters/water separators with micron ratings of between 10 and 30 microns and with the ability to see the fuel (clear bowl) are all he is what he needs.  What he is seeking are the PN's for that filter element and clear bowl from Caterpillar.




Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2020, 02:14:39 PM »
Brett, yes I fully understood the question and yes expanded on the primary fuel filter because many problems
within our fuel system has been the area of the primary fuel filter along with aftermarket non caterpillar equipment with air bleeding that one aftermarket builders has on many early motorhomes. Yes again fully
Understanding the post and Dave is making awareness area of many problems  I guess your correct and not answering post, however today very active with hands on repairs with service calls and yes fuel systems.
Low power, hard starting , engine surging in many cases location at primary fuel filter. If there was not a valid
Reason beyond talking about filter number I would not have wasted my time being my thoughts forward and ahead
maybe it would be best you email me and I can bring you up to speed on technical issues related with fuel
system problems. Dave

Offline Captpar

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2020, 06:51:53 AM »
Sledbiker. Alliance fuel filter is ABP N122 R50418 and bowl is RAI RK 30063 I always purchased from Freightliner in Gafffney. This a quality filter never any problems ,  I was thinking of using Cat filter since a cat  parts store recently opened near me.
2007 Sport Coach, C-7, Freightliner XL

Offline sledbiker

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2020, 07:16:53 AM »
Sledbiker. Alliance fuel filter is ABP N122 R50418 and bowl is RAI RK 30063 I always purchased from Freightliner in Gafffney. This a quality filter never any problems ,  I was thinking of using Cat filter since a cat  parts store recently opened near me.

Thanks for the update, I tried to do some research on ABP N122 R50418 at Alliance to see if I could do a direct conversion and I noticed that Alliance does not stock the filter anymore or there's a problem at their webpage, because the stock number placed in their search engine won't come up with a product description.

It seems that it works okay, if you do a Google search, but there's no description of the product either.

Captpar, do you or will you need to change out the bracket holder or will your new fuel filter retro fit where your Alliance filter screwed on to. I was hoping that it would be easy.

I know nothing comes easy, I would imagine diameter or threads Male Or Female sizing and seals won't be the same. I left a link to the site I was using to find the Info that I was looking for at the Alliance website.

https://allianceparts.com/crossreferenceresults.aspx?q=ABP%2FN122-R50418

Offline ziggyh

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2020, 08:53:07 PM »
Getting a bit off the Op original question but sometimes air in the suction side of a fuel system is not always a result of using non OEM or cat filters causing suction leaks but from result of entrained air being coalesced out of the fuel, and not always from suction leaks. I'm not saying cat filters don't need to be used, I believe they should be on the secondary and a properly installed good quality non cat filter assembly for a primary doesn't introduce problems. There are many cat engines with HEUI systems in motorhomes where the chassise builder uses a non cat branded primary filter and adapter without any problems.
ZiggyH

2007 Revolution LE
C9

Offline Captpar

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2020, 11:22:50 AM »
I’m picking up the cat filter this coming week I just assume that it will screw right on without any problem. If not I can always order the alliance from Freightliner.
2007 Sport Coach, C-7, Freightliner XL

Offline trekker01

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2020, 02:17:08 PM »
Failed to see this mentioned.  What Cat filter are you planning to use as your primary filter, replacing the Alliance that came on your coach? 

My Cat 3126B used the same secondary filter as your C7 (1R-0751), but came from the chassis builder with a Racor R90T primary filter with a clear drain bowl on the bottom.  I seem to remember David saying (in one of several seminars I have attended) that Cat didn't believe a Primary was needed.  I may have that wrong, but at 22 years the Racor is still there (changed regularily).   
Gary
1998 Safari Sahara 3126B Cat 300HP
CAT #7AS01206, Allison #6510139688
FMCA, Escapee, Good Sams
Central Florida

Offline Brett Wolfe

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2020, 02:22:18 PM »
Gary,

I have always viewed the single vs two fuel filters as:

What we got away with and the chassis maker saved a few bucks (single fuel filter) VS Best practices (primary and secondary fuel filters).

Yes, as long as the fuel is filtered to 2 microns and water removed, Caterpillar specs are met.  But "dividing that duty" into a primary to catch the larger stuff and water and then the Caterpillar 2 micron secondary filter will last a lot longer when exposed to contaminants than what it would take to clog a single 2 micron element.

Offline sledbiker

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2020, 08:42:10 PM »
I’m picking up the cat filter this coming week I just assume that it will screw right on without any problem. If not I can always order the alliance from Freightliner.

I was just wondering, whats the part number on the Primary Cat filter your picking up.... Thanks

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2020, 11:28:08 AM »
Gentlemen, passing forward technical information pertaining primary fuel filters . Engine’s with Heui injection
system starting with 3126 A  ,B ,E and cat C-7 do not have a primary water/fuel filter. This is the reason you
will find a aftermarket brand water/fuel on these model engines. I will come back to area but first Caterpillar
C-9 does have a water/fuel for this engine and for 400 hp and up.  The part number for filter group 225-4152
which will include filter base ,water/fuel filter plastic bowel. The filter number is 326-641 and plastic bowel
220-8678. Back to above technical information the entry of air within the suction side of fuel transfer pump
been a problem area for several reasons starting with the mechanical  fuel transfer pump higher HP engines
Transfer pump will provide more fuel and pressure. Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline antiqueclockservice

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2020, 06:56:33 AM »
Hi Folks,

My Cat C7 has a primary Cat Filter with water bowl 198-6378 (filter) and 146-6696 (bowl) in the bottom and an engine mounted secondary filter.

best,
Phil
Best,
Phil

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2020, 08:28:25 AM »
Phil, yes you are correct with water/fuel filter. The number comes up for attachment Kit 202-9902 for off-road
Water/fuel filter for serial number KAL-1-9999 Part of 217-8721 filter gp fuel an attachment. Comes as kit-fuel
water sep part number 147-1230. This is a add on for engine w/out water/fuel filter.
Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline CWHerbert98

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2020, 05:47:32 PM »
I recently purchased new water/fuel filters from my local Freightliner dealer for my 2006 Cat C-7 and they sold me Alliance Part 301F/ABP N122 R50418 for $24.45 with the Freightliner owners club discount. This has been the same filter number I've used since sometime in 2008.

I bought the following back in 2006 and the part numbers at that time were:

The clear bowl that mounts under the filter is RAI/RK30063.

The plastic wrench that fits around the clear bowl is RAI/22628.

I bought an extra clear bowl to be able to install the new filter with a clear bowl attached to it, then I just remove the other bowl later after I complete the rest of the filter change. Having the plastic wrench to install and remove the bowl has been great. Back in 2006 the wrench was $5.22 and the extra bowl was $28.67. I carry both the extra bowl and wrench and a set of both primary and secondary fuel filters (and an extra oil filter as well) with me at all times in case needed for some reason or road hazard event occurring.

Clayton


Offline sledbiker

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2020, 05:48:18 AM »
I’m picking up the cat filter this coming week I just assume that it will screw right on without any problem. If not I can always order the alliance from Freightliner.

Did it screw right on without any problem, if it did what filter # fit your old filter bracket?

Thanks.

Offline Captpar

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Re: Primary fuel filter
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2020, 08:54:53 AM »
Sorry about the delay in replying ,cat parts was closed so I went back to Freightliner for the alliance filter. Maybe cat filter next time .
2007 Sport Coach, C-7, Freightliner XL