Author Topic: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop  (Read 608 times)

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Offline RWBFleetwood

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2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« on: October 11, 2020, 09:04:12 PM »
Hello,

While driving today (Sunday) we had traveled about 90 miles when our engine suddenly died.  There were no engine fault lights, oil pressure and engine temp was normal. 

I tried starting it up.  It cranks but appears to not be getting fuel or there is an ECM issue.  We have about 1/3 rd tank of fuel.

I checked the fuses for the ECM and they are all good.

We were towed to a Freightliner dealer in Shreveport LA and hope to have them look at it tomorrow (Monday morning).

Before this happened the engine was running well, no power issues, acceleration was fine but when it stopped I felt something, like the cruise control was turned off or something broke.  There is no oil or fuel leaking. 

We have 68,043 miles on a 2005 Fleetwood Expedition 38n. It has an engine brake installed and was on when this happened.
It has been driven approx 7,000 miles since the last service. 

I have read a bit about the Heui pump but our sudden engine stop does not seem to fit anything I found

Could this be the ECM?  Does this engine have a lift pump that could have failed?  Because it was running well then a sudden stop I don’t think filters are the issue.

Any help is most appreciated

Ric





Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2020, 05:54:39 AM »
RWBFleetwood, welcome to the Diesel RV Club. Your problem feel is minor and required
What is called a  Injection Actuation Pressure Sensor and if your parked some place you
can verify if that sensor is bad by disconnect the pig tail wire that comes off the sensor and
try starting the engine. ( the engine will start if  IAP sensor is bad with wire disconnect ). The
area or location of this sensor is connected to side of the engine block .look directly at the end of the Heui pump and in on engine block , you will see a mushroom looking sensors with 3
wires coming from the back of this sensor. Follow this wire pig tail locations for triangle looking
connector that will be zip tied to wire harness, This wire pig tail is about 12 inches long and
Disconnect and try to start engine. This is a common problem and engine starts sensor is bad.
Caterpillar part cost around $ 176 dollars.    Check this first and is ok than check the return
fuel pressure regulator to fuel tank location location on back of engine head ( looks like a hex
shaped part about 4 inches long has dirt in check valve. My suggestion when going to service
shop tell shop supervisor that you been talking with your Cat Mechanic and you would like
them to check this area first. Be real careful and suggest before any work or tear down on
your engine needs your ok and you will need to contact your mechanic. If the service shop can
give you any Cat ET fault codes I can let you know what is going on and not have a ton of
Parts installed for a minor problem. Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline RWBFleetwood

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2020, 09:40:27 AM »
The technician ran diagnostics and found

“ CONNECTED AND FOUND INJECTION ACTUATION PSI SYSTEM FAULT. MONITORED INJECTION ACTUATION PSI AND ONLY BUILDING AROUND 300 PSI . DESIRED PSI IS 1450 PSI. WILL NEED TO PERFORM DEAD HEAD TEST, AND ISOLATE PUMP OR INJECTORS”

Is the test they are referring to the way to go or follow your advice first?

Offline Ken Carpenter

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2020, 01:41:54 PM »
Dave strongly recommended starting with The IAP sensor with 12 inch pig tail with 3 wires going into a triangle plastic connection. In his judgement it is the culprit.
2005 Winnebago Journey 39K, C7 350HP
Jeep Grand Cherokee, Airforce One
Diesel RV Club Officer & Board Member

Offline RWBFleetwood

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2020, 04:51:25 PM »
Hi Ken

Thanks for the message.  Where is the sensor mounted on the engine.  I looked today and did find one on the pump, is this it?

I cannot locate documentation showing this

Thank you

Offline Ken Carpenter

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2020, 06:05:25 PM »
Here are some photos that should help you locate the IAP Sensor: ,
2005 Winnebago Journey 39K, C7 350HP
Jeep Grand Cherokee, Airforce One
Diesel RV Club Officer & Board Member

Offline RWBFleetwood

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2020, 06:32:21 AM »
Diagnosis is the HEUI pump is not putting out any pressure.   The tech said it must be replaced.

Offline RWBFleetwood

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2020, 07:27:34 AM »
As a follow up the mechanic removed the Heui pump, took about 1-1/2 hours.
Once on the bench the failure was evident; the drive gear came loose from the shaft.  It is very difficult to turn the pump shaft by hand.

We are having a new pump installed but would like to know what would cause the gear to become loose and could this be traced to another issue going on that we are not aware of?




Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2020, 09:55:17 AM »
The gear on the Heui pump is held in place with what is called a Morse taper and is a metal to metal fit without a key in shaft. The only thing that holds the gear tight in place is a hex bolt
With harden steel washer. Turning the pump on bench which turns hard is normal because the hp pump is a piston type pump. Last be very sure if the gear connect to pump loosen up the wear would be in the female taper on gear and little wear on the shaft on pump.. this is ahead
is concern because if any wear on a Morse taper the gear will work loose again because the Morse taper is a very close machine part will take very little spinning to gear that will require
replacement. If you want to prevent this problem ahead replace the gear along with the pump.
I’m looking at the caterpillar technical bulletin on what I just explained. Ask Dave, Dave Atherton
Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline David.e.atherton

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2020, 10:15:32 AM »
RWBFleetwood, my suggestion for after you clear service shop being there not allowing you
around your motorhome. Take it down the road and find a Caterpillar service shop and recheck
the gear that drives the Heui pump to make sure the gear for correct torque and not pushed
Too deep on the shaft on the Heui pump. Got a bad feeling here and have experienced this
before but I’m making you aware of this. Ask Dave, Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Offline RWBFleetwood

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2020, 12:22:32 PM »
The new pump came with the gear attached and torqued.  To have it rechecked would involve removing and reinstalling it.

I did go back in the shop and spoke to the mechanic who has 30 years experience.  The engine fired right up.  Test drive was successful.

The pump came from the local caterpillar dealer.




Offline RWBFleetwood

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Re: 2003/2004 Cat C7 ACERT sudden engine stop
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 01:58:00 PM »
Hello,

We left the Freightliner dealer / shop and discovered, after traveling 400 miles motor oil all over the back of our coach, our bike cover and tow car.  The mechanic left the oil fill cap off so the suction created at the back while driving sucked oil out and made a huge mess.  The good news is nothing was wrong with the repair and the clean up was easily done.  The dealer is providing a refund to cover the cost of clean up and a few errors we discovered on the bill.
The engine seems to be working better with the hew Heui pump.  It would be good to know why the old pump’s drive gear suddenly became loose.  It could have been a shaft failure but without dismantling the pump we will never know.